Player contract and loot

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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby SteveC » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:26 pm

Hazel wrote:Thank you for this!

More queries later on the PvP competition bit when I'm not so sleepy, but on the membership issue - it was my understanding that membership of the ISC was open explicitly to Rogue Traders? So people who are on crews are not members themselves, and never have been.

I'm happy to ensure that public shared loot lists get divided up to include anyone who attended the event for OOC fairness purposes. But IC, membership of the consortium has always been separate to loot shares (although of course it has influenced how loot is shared). Is this now being changed?


That was certainly my understanding of the ISC set up yes. It being a Rogue Trader based game and all. The Rogue Traders bought into the Consortium initially from Eberstark (an NPC) and later PCs bought in by paying up to the current RTs that were already members on an even basis. But yes also interested in this clarification also.

Again trying to help OOC parity is something I'm not against but how far does that extend?
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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby Kat » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:33 pm

Hi,

May regret asking this but what classes as 'Loot'?

Not trying ot be a pedant, but I know some people have been given things by NPCs, or won things, or situations were set up so someone could get a shiny they bought in DTs. Would these count in loot lists?

Also are you looking at groups together? Because should I ever steal anything doesnt mean I would tell others in my 'group' about it (Well old group, I mean Arbites are so darn honest!). So would that be an issue?

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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby Ghost » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:41 pm

I think the issue might be that the Iron Star Consortium is being used to mean 'the wider group' rather than the specific (currently 5 I think) RTs who are members.

I agree that all attending should get an equal share of an events loot.

But the Consortium is and Always was something that Rogue traders, and specifically those 5/6 characters were members of.

We have had a policy of OC inclusion (any RT who applies will be allowed in) after the hilarious demanding entrance with menaces moment that I felt I was forced to resort to and wasn't really fun for a lot of people.

But it *isnt* a collective term interchangable with 'the playerbase'

Part of the issue is that we've had several groups come in without RT characters to provide said legal coverage beyond the line. A fair amount of game IC has been made out of saying 'well, technically, you don't have any right to be here, so no loot'. Usually this gets resolved by one or other trader sponsoring them in the manner Jamie has mentioned already.

I'm not actually aware of anyone being OC denied a share of the loot list, and Dexter was always happy to sponsor people.

I don't think it is fair to suggest that ISC is now 'Everyone' in the playerbase - not least because of all the wrangling that has gon on beforehand, and being a member of the ISC has never been a barrier to a share of the Shared loot - not least because it's not the RT's running away with it all and giggling.
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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby Hazel » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:53 pm

It has come pretty close to non warranted people not getting a share after certain recent games, discussions around that are (I'm guessing) in part what prompted this clarification.
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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby Ghost » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:27 pm

Hazel wrote:It has come pretty close to non warranted people not getting a share after certain recent games, discussions around that are (I'm guessing) in part what prompted this clarification.


True, but if that's the case it is not because the option wasn't available to take but because they elected not to take it.It's been made clear (at least in my eyes) that if you decline to accept sponsorship then you have no right to be beyond the line and thus no claim.

Designer Bloodstain wrote:Those individuals should endeavour to find an appropriate individual to sanction their activities beyond. Such effort should be met with appropriate IC cooperation/game (there’s that conceit again…) and those who make no such effort should be aware that there will be consequences to them if they are caught. With the least of said consequences being not getting a share, so it really is in their interest to do so.

This is essentially something of a two way street.


As per Jamie's post above, if they *Aren't* covered under the auspices of a RT then they don't get any loot. Emphasis mine.

They're just asking the RT's to be willing to be appropriately co-operative if approached for 'sponsorship'- which as far as I was concerned was already the case.
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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby Designer Bloodstain » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:38 pm

Hazel wrote:More queries later on the PvP competition bit when I'm not so sleepy, but on the membership issue - it was my understanding that membership of the ISC was open explicitly to Rogue Traders? So people who are on crews are not members themselves, and never have been.


That is correct, technically the IC formal membership of the Iron Star Consortium has been/would only be for the Rogue Traders. However the original intent and purpose of the Iron Star Consortium was to serve as the conceit behind why the PCs got/get together and cooperate in the form of a shared goal, a rough (unwritten) code of conduct towards each other and of course division of loot.

Given however that there has been something of an issue with regard to division of loot we feel that expanding the original spirit of the Iron Star Consortium with regard to IC cooperation and loot division is a good way of addressing these issues.

Simriel wrote:Subnote: I have still not seen any clarification of loot shares from either the Shiver or from Schisms


These should be forthcoming shortly based off of this clarification.

Hazel wrote:I'd appreciate some further clarification on the 'we encourage PvP competition but everything must be shared equally' bit. Is this just about stealing off with things while the rest of party's back is turned? What about secret deals with NPCs, careful cons, clever theft of things already belonging to PCs, politicking so that everyone on a linear under-reports loot back at base, or going on the risky linear that others turn down?


Certainly. This largely focuses on your first example, stealing things whole the rest of the party’s back is turned. Secret deals with NPCS, clever cons, clever theft of things belonging to people and politics on linear are all fine and interesting.

That first one though, as I have said, while we expect and accept a degree of theft will always occur. When it is reaching the point where half or more of the allocated loot for an event is being pocketed, this becomes a problematic amount of theft. If this were occurring every now and then it would not be so much of an issue, but pretty much since we stopped the spectre administered events this is something that has consistently occurred which has in turn lead to this request for ST clarification.

Hazel wrote:What about events where we do not make IC arrangements for shared loot lists to be administered?


This is a part of the problem I feel. It seems to me that there is a sizeable portion of the player base who are operating on the assumption that loot will be publically administered and shared at/after the event and then there is a section of the player base who will steal loot at the event and then also demand a share of the publically distributed loot after said event.

Events where loot was administered and distributed by the Spectres showed far less negative feedback with regard to this and so it is likely that we shall consider applying this and other conceits to our upcoming events.

Ger wrote:On a separate note i'd very much like clarification on what is deemed excessive? Is it monetary value? is it specifically items


This is a very subjective question as the nature of loot invariably varies between events. Sometimes it will be raw wealth (say WU or precious metals/meaningless but valuable goods ect) other times it will be equipment/assets and sometimes a mix of all of these things.

As a more general answer, each event tends to have a set value of total loot assigned to it. If one individual or group (as we are aware that stolen items largely tend to end up in group coffers) walks off with over half of this value (in whatever it is IE goods/equipment ect) without the knowledge of the rest of the player base. That would be considered excessive.

It would be our hope that we would not have to assign a value to this and that it would be somewhat self-policing. We are ultimately here to play a game and have fun. One person or group keeping all the toys for themselves might feel like winning or fun for that person/group but I do not imagine it feels that way for everyone else.

Ger wrote:Brad, like many many many characters, is a thieving bastard and I have no intentions of stopping.


No one is asking you to stop. What you are being asked to do is consider how much you do steal.

Jaxx wrote:Just wanted to point out that this has been done IN RESPONSE to lots of emails whinging about it and as such is the ST team reacting to those emails and as such, can we watch where we're sprinkling the seasoning. Might be worth the people who wanted something like this to chip in and say why they want it that way so that they STs aren't getting salt because they'really trying to make the game better based on feedback.


Pretty much, this was an issue that was raised by various people across a number of groups in the playerbase a number of events ago. I have noted it as an outsanding issue on becoming lead ST and so have taken action based on the feedback I have received and discussion with the previous lead STs with regard to this issue.
SteveC wrote:That was certainly my understanding of the ISC set up yes. It being a Rogue Trader based game and all. The Rogue Traders bought into the Consortium initially from Eberstark (an NPC) and later PCs bought in by paying up to the current RTs that were already members on an even basis. But yes also interested in this clarification also.

I do not wish to get into a semantic argument here so I mention this largely as a point of clarification as this feeds into a linked but ultimately separate discussion. But No Rest For The Wicked is a game focused at/around Rogue Traders. It is not and has never been a Rogue Trader based game. That is a common misconception that has arisen from player interpretation of unofficial conversation with a previous lead ST. This is a small distinction, but an important one.

Kat wrote:May regret asking this but what classes as 'Loot'? Not trying ot be a pedant, but I know some people have been given things by NPCs, or won things, or situations were set up so someone could get a shiny they bought in DTs. Would these count in loot lists?


Loot in this instance refers to items/wealth/equipment that is available to be gained during uptime, IE at events. If you are given something by an NPC, win it in a competition or have done a downtime specifically to gain a piece of equipment/asset, while you are welcome to declare it on a public loot list, this would not count towards the “limit” as it is not something you have stolen from the rest of the party but rather something you specifically have earned.

Kat wrote:Also are you looking at groups together? Because should I ever steal anything doesnt mean I would tell others in my 'group' about it (Well old group, I mean Arbites are so darn honest!). So would that be an issue?


We would look at this on both an individual and group basis as individuals are more often than not members of groups and appropriated items more often than not end up in group pots. Further to this, excessive theft is a problem regardless of whether it is an individual or a group of individuals doing it.
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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby SteveC » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:23 pm

Apologies I meant based on the Rogue Trader game line rather than the RT archetype. However if we're moving into a more general 40k based game rather than just that one line it's useful to know.
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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby Designer Bloodstain » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:12 pm

No worries.

With regard to the proposals I have seen for Season 2 of NRFTW, these all move the game towards being both based on Rogue Trader as you mention and focused upon Rogue Traders as in the title. But this is as mentioned, a conversation for elsewhere.
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Re: Player contract and loot

Postby KathM » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:11 pm

I think I may have a loot ribbon from the last event I was on as a player. If I find it I'll log it with the STs

Anyone wanting sponsorship can also always ask Pip.
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