Scout

Discussions pertinent to the rules rewrite

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Scout

Postby Yoda » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:32 pm

Fleeting Shadow
You gain an effective +1 to Awareness, Security and Stealth. This may grant you an effective level above Advanced at character creation, but may not raise your effective level above Epic.

Basic
Security Evasion
Pick one of Demolitions or Security when you take this talent. Once per combat, you may use a card not in your that skill deck as if it were in your skill deck.
  • Upgrade: You may use this ability on the other skill deck as well.
  • Upgrade: You may use this ability three times per combat.
Was:
Once per day, you may use a card not in your Security deck as if it were in your Security deck.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day
  • Upgrade: You may now instead re-use a card you have already played

Walk Unseen
Once per day, you may call Unseen when hidden and remain Unseen for five minutes. This talent cannot be used in armour heavier than Light Flak.
  • Upgrade: You may now use Unseen in armour no heavier than Light Carapace
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day

Scout – Intermediate
What Lies Hidden
Once per day, you may call No Effect to any level of Stealth.
  • Upgrade: You may now call No Effect to Unseen instead
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day
One with the Shadows
Once per combat, you may call Vanish Stealth.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per combat
  • Upgrade: You may now call Vanish Unseen instead. This does not increase how often you can use Unseen and all restrictions on Unseen still apply

Assassin – Intermediate
Any Means Necessary
Choose from Shieldbreaker or Stun, you may now add that call to a melee attack once per combat.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per combat.
  • Upgrade: You may pick from either call to add to your attack.

Uncanny Precision
Choose from Vital or Through, you may now add that call to a melee attack three times per combat. This ability does not work against larger than human targets (not including large orcs) or against creatures with massively inhuman physiology (tyranids, demons).
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent six times per combat.
  • Upgrade: You may pick from either call to add to your attack.

Was:
Assassin – Intermediate
Assassin’s Strike
Once per combat, when attacking from Stealth or Unseen, you may add one of the following call combinations to your attack: Through Vital Fatal, Through Vital Stun, Through Stun Silenced, Through Vital Silenced, Through Fatal Silenced or Silenced +2 Damage.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per combat
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent against two targets when you attack from Stealth or Unseen if you strike within ten seconds of the first strike
Fluid Grace
You gain two additional Vitality hits. This extra vitality cannot be used in armour heavier than Light Flak.
  • Upgrade: You now have an additional 4 Vitality hits instead
  • Upgrade: The extra Vitality hits can now be used in armour no heavier than Light Carapace


Scout – Advanced
Cloak of Night
Once per day, you may grant up to three others the ability to use your Stealth level for a single combat as long as you are with them.
  • Upgrade: When using this talent, your group may enter Unseen whenever you do with the same time constraints as you.
Infiltrate
Once per downtime, you may choose an imperial, planetary or sector organisation and choose a Title within that organisation worth no more than 300IP. You are considered to have that Title for the duration of the downtime period, complete with any incumbent perks and drawbacks.
Titles within other human organisations and conspiracies may be available through this talent at double cost. Contact an ST with the details of the endeavour you wish to use your power in conjunction with and the STs will advise what titles may be available.
  • Upgrade: You may now choose titles worth up to 600IP
Was:
Infiltrate
Once per downtime, you may choose a planetary or sector organisation and choose a Title within that organisation worth no more than 600IP. You are considered to have that Title for the duration of the downtime period, complete with any incumbent perks and drawbacks.
  • Upgrade: You may now choose titles within Imperial organisations
Was:
  • Upgrade: You may now choose titles worth up to 1200IP
  • Upgrade: You may now choose titles within Imperial organisations


Assassin – Advanced
Decimate
Once per downtime, you may choose a target and a sector or planetary influence area. Your target’s influence in that area is reduced significantly for this downtime period as those they associate with have a series of bad “accidents”.
  • Upgrade: You may now choose titles within Imperial organisations
evel about right.
Fluid Grace
You gain two additional Vitality hits. You may also call Shield 1/combat against non area effect attacks. This call cannot be used in armour heavier than Light Flak and is in addition to any power fields you may possess.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per combat
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Re: Scout

Postby Yoda » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:34 pm

The Assassin' Strike call list isn't definitive yet. Input would be valued on that. That list is the product of brainstorming and we've not had a chance to test it out.

For Security Evasion, we've considered swapping the main talent with the second upgrade. Any thoughts on this?
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Re: Scout

Postby Gray » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:22 am

Hi Yoda,

I think without assassins strike gaining shieldbreaker as standard it will continue to sprong off the people you most want to use it.

I don't hugely have a take on security evasion as it is not really my thing, however the base option seems very underpowered when compares to the level across the current trees.

Thanks,

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Re: Scout

Postby Caboose2605 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:30 am

Yoda wrote:For Security Evasion, we've considered swapping the main talent with the second upgrade. Any thoughts on this?


Speaking from experience of using this Talent, I wouldn't swap it. The ability to emulate a card from the Security Deck that ain't in my hand is much more useful than reusing one I already used (Which has the chance of not being in my hand again)

Gray wrote:I think without assassins strike gaining shieldbreaker as standard it will continue to sprong off the people you most want to use it.


Whilst there is a gut part of me that wants to agree, because I'd like nothing more than to be able to Assassin Strike the guy in oodles of armor with a shield generator once and kill him, I guess I've always viewed this skill as a mook clearer. From my perspective at least, I'd argue that we are fighting in a field LARP, and yes, there are those of us that use stealth and guile to fight on the battle field, boss fights is boss fights. They are supposed to be hard, and are supposed to have you dancing about like a mad man to beat them, not one shotting them with a nasty talent. However, I won't complain if the Rules Gods decide it so!
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Re: Scout

Postby Artemis » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:11 pm

How about the spare advanced Assassin talent be an actual full on unstoppable one shot but make it cost. I'm not certain how many but if you put a vitality cost on it then you'd be able to have an assassin pop out, do their hit but have used up some of their staying power to be able to do so.

Perfect Strike.
Once per combat, when attacking from Stealth or Unseen, you may strike a perfect blow that will incapacitate any mortal foe in a single blow at a cost of three vitality points. If the victim is able to resist the attack for any reason (being a demon, C'Tan or other creature with an unusual anatomy which precludes assassination) then the vitality points do not count as being spent.

That allows for one shotting some types of big boss but still means you can have rare instances where the assassin fails like the Callidus assassin who tried to stab the Deceiver who was disguised as a planetary governor.
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Re: Scout

Postby hofoengenar » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:29 pm

It'd be a cool ability. From a purely plot point of view, something like that makes it very difficult to have a recurring big bad, who turns up and taunts the players a few times at different events, each time escaping after things have gone wrong in order to get his vengance later. In fact you basically have to assume any plot bad guy is dead as soon as the players meet them. It'll lead to a lot more 'waves of mooks' fights and less bosses...
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Re: Scout

Postby hofoengenar » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:02 pm

Though I suppose you could get around it by having a special skill tree for NPC bad guys. Give them a skill that makes them immune to damage while they monologue and for the next two minutes after it. Anything which would kill them during this period instead results in them shouting an insult and attempting to withdraw from the field...
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Re: Scout

Postby Andrew » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:35 pm

In regards to security evasion... the point of swapping them was that the upgrade seems weaker than the talent. When upgraded you would still get the really good power but it would be more costly to get to. A slightly weaker version being available earlier.

My concern is that if you leave it as it is there is an upgrade that people wont want as it's weaker than the base power. Happy to take suggestions on a better upgrade instead.
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Re: Scout

Postby Maakeff » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:45 pm

As I understand it, big named significant NPCs have that ability - they have the PC's ability to ignore Vital calls, which essentially nullifies the flawless one-hit-kill. As long as that stays suitably rare on NPCs, the balance should be fine.
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Re: Scout

Postby Maakeff » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:59 pm

From the Tech-Priest tree:
Yoda wrote:Regarding the Stun, it was decided that we wanted to make Stun a characteristic of the Scout archetype, so it was removed from most other places.


I have a couple of questions on this.

1) What's the logic behind this? Am not complaining, merely curious.

2) There's really not a lot of Stun in our tree above as it stands at all... Will this be changing? It would be nice to have a baseline melee Stun attack that does no damage, for example.
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